04/04/2007 08:30 AM House FISHERIES
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| HB16 | |
| Adjourn |
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
April 4, 2007
8:43 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair
Representative Kyle Johansen
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Lindsey Holmes
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Max Gruenberg
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 16
"An Act providing for an effective date by delaying the
effective date of repeal of the authority of the Commercial
Fisheries Entry Commission to maintain the vessel-based
commercial fisheries limited entry systems for the Bering Sea
Korean hair crab and weathervane scallop fisheries, and the
effective date of conforming amendments related to the repeal of
those systems."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 16
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND LIMITED ENTRY SUNSET: CRAB/SCALLOP
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) SEATON
01/16/07 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/5/07
01/16/07 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/16/07 (H) FSH, RES
04/04/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
FRANK HOMAN, Commissioner
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearings on HB 16, provided
background information and responded to questions.
BOBBIE MINIO, Crew Member
F/V Provider
Bellingham, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during hearings on HB 16.
JOHN LAMAR, Captain
F/V Ocean Hunter
Steilacoom, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during hearings on HB 16.
MARK KANDIANIS, Captain
F/V Last Resort
Ferndale, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during hearings on HB 16.
JERRY MCCUNE, President
United Fishermen of Alaska
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified with neutrality on HB 16.
TERESSA KANDIANIS, President
North Pacific Scallop Coop
Partner/Manager, F/V Provider
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16.
JIM STONE
F/V Ocean Hunter
Lakewood, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16.
TOM MINIO, Skipper
F/V Provider
Bellingham, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16.
THOMAS N. MINIO, Mate
F/V Provider
Maple Falls, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16.
ROBERT WILLIAMS, Deputy Director
Coastal Villages Region Fund
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 16.
JULIE KAVANAUGH
F/V Sylvia Star
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 16.
ALEXUS KWACHKA
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 16.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR PAUL SEATON called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 8:43:00 AM. Representatives
Johnson, Johansen, and LeDoux were present at the call to order.
Representatives Wilson, Holmes, and Edgmon arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
HB 16-EXTEND LIMITED ENTRY SUNSET: CRAB/SCALLOP
8:43:11 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 16, "An Act providing for an effective date by
delaying the effective date of repeal of the authority of the
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission to maintain the vessel-
based commercial fisheries limited entry systems for the Bering
Sea Korean hair crab and weathervane scallop fisheries, and the
effective date of conforming amendments related to the repeal of
those systems."
8:43:52 AM
CHAIR SEATON stated his intent to move HB 16 today, following
public testimony.
8:44:44 AM
CHAIR SEATON explained that HB 16 differs from the limited entry
act by allowing permits to be issued to vessel owners. The
limited entry act requires that the permit be held by a natural
person, who is on the fishing grounds, and operating the gear as
an active participant in the fishery. This vessel based program
is an alternative that allows the fishing privileges to be
allocated to the vessel owner/investor; defined as a natural
person or a corporation. The requirement to be participating on
the fishing grounds does not apply. This is the policy up for
review. Further, he said that there has been significant
contraction allowed in these fisheries. One has been the Bering
Sea Korean hair crab fishery, closed for the last five years due
to a collapse in the stock. The other is the weathervane
scallop fisheries, which has been operating under a voluntary
coop, effectively restricting the number of vessels
participating. The question arising from this is how much of a
consolidation of a fishery is advisable for the state. Should
one vessel or three be harvesting a stock before it is
considered a special right of fisheries. The sunset extension
is an opportunity to review the public policy issues, and
establish how to balance the management, participation, and
vessels involved.
8:48:41 AM
FRANK HOMAN, Commissioner, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
(CFEC), stated that this is a simple bill, to extend the dates
of limitation for the vessel licensing of the scallop fishery
and Bering Sea hair crab fishery. In 2002, a special
authorization allowed a limitation for these two fisheries only,
for conservation purposes. The traditional limited entry system
was developed for the owner/operator salmon fishery. Several
years ago, as the scallop fishery developed, it was noted that
the increasing pressure was reaching a proportion where a
limitation might be in order. Using the traditional method was
not deemed appropriate, for the hair crab or scallop fisheries,
as multiple skippers tend the vessels. Utilizing the
traditional method, each skipper would be eligible for a permit,
resulting in too many permits being allotted; negating the
conservation effort.
8:51:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if using a point system was
considered.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN responded that this was not done because of
the need for conservation. He explained that it may have taken
a number of years for the adjudication process to settle.
During those years, the fishery would have been submitted to
continued pressure, causing further stock depletion.
8:53:46 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX inquired whether the adjudication process
is governed by statute or regulation.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN answered, "Statute."
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if amending the statute had been
considered, regarding these fisheries, and expediting the
appeals process.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN explained that he was not on the commission
at that time, and could only speculate on why that action would
not have been favored.
8:55:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked whether someone from legal could
provide the answer. She opined that such action would have
acted like a temporary restraining order.
8:55:53 AM
COMMISSIONER HOMAN explained how the process works: The first
applicants to a fishery are processed by a hearing officer. The
process may take about a year, and depending on the outcome, the
applicant may appeal the decision. These hearing officers work
in a back log, with perhaps 100 or more applications and appeals
to be handled. There are at least five levels for appeal, all
the way up through the court system, which can take years to
pursue.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX maintained her interest in why legislative
intervention was not sought, or considered a viable option.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN responded that if an exception were made for
this fishery it may have effected other fisheries.
CHAIR SEATON interjected that the question will be held for
legal response. However, he pointed out, statute was made
specific to these two fisheries. The question appears to be
whether other changes should have been included to make the
system/statute work better.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN because of the conservation issues involved,
the vessel license permit system was implemented. The
department supported this action, and it received legislative
approval.
8:59:36 AM
CHAIR SEATON recalled that there had not been openings in the
hair crab fishery, neither were any expected. This was the
complexion of the fishery at the time that this measure was
implemented. The hair crab fishery involved larger vessels
operated by someone other than the owner, and he asked if that
was another reason for entering into this type of management.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN said it was done with the scallop fishery to
reduce the number of units of gear; considering that each vessel
could have had three skippers, each with their own unit of gear
to work. This may have been true for the hair crab fishery, as
well.
9:01:09 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX granted that the pressure on the scallop
fishery was understandable, but with regards to the crab
fishery, it was closed, neither was it expected to be opened in
the immediate future. The argument that too many people would
be fishing during mitigation does not hold up, she insisted.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN justified that the limitation might have
allowed an opening.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX argued that this enactment is now four
years old, and asked if there is an estimation of when this
fishery will open.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN deferred to the biologists for a response.
9:02:53 AM
COMMISSIONER HOMAN explained that when these fisheries were
limited, concern was expressed for the possibility of
corporations holding the permits. Some of the partnerships that
own these permits have formed small corporations, but there are
no large corporations involved. In the hair crab fishery, for
example, the qualified permits are 75 percent owner/operator.
In the scallop fishery 3-4 of the 8 vessels have owner/operators
on board.
9:05:08 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked if the concern for issuing these permits was
not based on the size of a corporation, but the loss of the
participation requirement.
COMMISSIONER HOMAN agreed. He continued, stating that the
biologists will testify how the scallop fishery is well managed,
exceeding by-catch limit concerns, orderly, and within harvest
guidelines. The hair crab fishery remains closed. Extending
the sunset date provides another five years of status quo, at
which time it will be reviewed again by the legislature.
9:08:25 AM
CHAIR SEATON opened public testimony.
9:08:50 AM
BOBBIE MINIO, Crewman, F/V Provider, introduced herself as a
generational fisherman, and stated support for HB 16.
CHAIR SEATON asked how long the scallop season runs.
MS. MINIO responded that it can depend on the weather, usually
about eight months. To a follow up she said it begins in the
summer and runs through winter.
9:10:38 AM
JOHN LAMAR, Captain, F/V Ocean Hunter, as a co-owner of the
vessel he does not feel that it would be fair to his partners,
if he were the sole permit holder. On his own he would not be
able to afford the boat and equipment, although he is the
primary operator.
CHAIR SEATON asked what is the size of the F/V Ocean Hunter.
MR. LAMAR responded that it is 100 foot, with a crew of 6-12,
operating a 15 foot dredge.
CHAIR SEATON requested that he describe the dredge equipment for
the benefit of the committee.
MR. LAMAR explained that, sometimes called a drag or a rake, it
is an "A" shaped main frame, with an attached bag made of four
inch steel rings crimped together. To further committee
inquiry, he said that the by-catch escapes through the top
stretch mesh and the rings.
9:13:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked how it would work for him if he did
not own part of the vessel but acted as a hired captain in the
partnership.
MR. LAMAR said he wouldn't have entered the partnership given
that scenario.
9:15:33 AM
MARK KANDIANIS, Captain, F/V Last Resort, reported that he has
skippered scallop boats since 1980. He described the evolution
of the Alaskan scallop fishery over the years. Some years he
was the only boat fishing scallops, other years boats came from
the east coast and over capitalized on the fishery. Working
with various agencies including the North Pacific Fishery
Management Council (NPFMC), Alaska Department of Fish & Game
(ADF&G), Board of Fish (BOF), and CFEC a management plan was
established for the fishery. He described the trying times that
occurred as the fishery stabilized. Further, he described the
fishery as a success story that could be held up as a model; a
culmination of 27 years of work. He expressed concerned that
failure of HB 16 could see the coop go by the way side.
CHAIR SEATON asked him to explain the coop.
MR. KANDIANIS said that the coop was created for biological and
economic reasons. The F/V Provider gave up half of their catch
history to encourage the captains of the other boats to join the
coop. During the season, the boats are competitive, however,
they work together to avoid by-catch and provide other fishery
support and camaraderie.
9:22:10 AM
CHAIR SEATON questioned what giving up half of their catch
history was based on.
MR. KANDIANIS stated that this was based on the average of their
historic catch of 300,000 pounds. As Captain of the Provider he
agreed to harvest 150,000 pounds to allow other vessels to
harvest. The harvest was mutually agreed on.
CHAIR SEATON asked about the level of boat participation in the
coop.
MR. KANDIANIS responded that in the original coop there were
four or five vessels involved.
CHAIR SEATON said he is interested in whether all of the members
of the coop participate, or do some of them have their share
harvested for them.
MR. KANDIANIS answered that a few may, but not many.
9:25:20 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked what is the size of the F/V Provider.
MR. KANDIANIS reported that it is registered at 117 foot, with
an overall length of 123 foot; fishing two 15 foot, New Bedford
style dredges.
9:25:59 AM
CHAIR SEATON clarified that there are two scallop programs: a
limited entry fishery governed by NPFMC, for the federal waters;
and the limited entry in the state waters. HB 16 only effects
the state waters.
MR. KANDIANIS said that the scallop beds are considered a near
shore fishery, but they do crossover into federal waters. For
management purposes it may be difficult to monitor the crossover
areas without transponder equipment or onboard observers. The
cost of observers can be prohibitive. Additionally, he reported
on how boats not in the coop have been given opportunities to
fish.
9:27:44 AM
CHAIR SEATON queried whether they are required to have a VMS
(vessel monitoring system) on board.
MR. KANDIANIS said no but that they would be willing to carry
one.
9:28:00 AM
JERRY MCCUNE, United Fishermen of Alaska, stated a neutral
stance for this bill, and reported that there have been no
complaints received on this policy. Many members were nervous
when it was implemented, he said, but this small fishery has
been "OK." It would be objectionable to have it extended beyond
this scope.
9:29:49 AM
TERESSA KANDIANIS, President, North Pacific Scallop Coop;
Partner/Manager, F/V Provider, urged passage of HB 16, and
referred to her written statement in the committee packet
providing crew member and harvest statistics. Further, she
referenced a graph indicating the by-catch rate both pre and
post coop. Since the inception of the coop, the by-catch rate
has gone down significantly. Another major change has been the
increase in the number of days fished; from 500 to 1,200. This
longer season, with a limited number of boats, creates a smaller
ocean bottom foot print. She pointed out that the bottom is
fished heavily, but the impacts are closely monitored, along
with the by-catch. There are three ways to alleviate pressure
on the scallop fishery: closed areas, gear modification, and
effort reduction. She explained the coop's efforts, in each of
these areas, in detail and said that the national and state
scientists tout this coop as a model scallop fishery. Steps
taken by the coop have provided a healthy, high quality, safe
fishery. The reputation of this fishery is to produce premiere
scallops. There is no control over the non-coop boats, however.
The smallest license is for a 70 foot boat. The smaller vessels
cannot pull against the tides or fish in foul weather. The
longer season has helped these boats to be more selective, take
better care of the environment, and produce a higher end
product.
9:39:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked her to speak to the open season
changes and the effects on the ports of call that the boats
frequent.
MS. KANDIANIS reported that the season cost to operate one
vessel is approximately $500,000. Crew members will each earn
close to that in wages, shares, and benefits. Calling into a
port, the crew typically check into hotels and enjoy their time;
spending as much as $3,000 per day.
9:42:16 AM
JIM STONE, F/V Ocean Hunter, paraphrased from a prepared
statement, which read as follows [original punctuation
provided]:
You will hear plenty of testimony from both fisheries
management and industry, about the license limitation
program as it relates to conservation and
sustainability to both scallops and by-catch. This
will all show that we have become good stewards to our
fishery and the ones we by-catch.
What I am beginning to understand is that this is more
an issue of philosophy whether licenses should be
given to boats or people. Compare apples to apples.
When I think of state licenses issued to natural
persons, I think of salmon and herring. Vessel owned
licenses, I think of larger offshore operators.
Smaller salmon and herring vessels are typically a
much smaller investment than larger off-shore rigs.
Our boat was bought by five professional lifetime
Alaska fishermen. Yet only one of us buys the $2,000
annual state permit card.
Salmon and herring typically have two week to two
month seasons; the scallop season lasts seven months.
Salmon and herring do not have observers; scallops
have mandatory observers costing $350.00 per day.
Salmon and herring crews are one-four; a scalloper
twelve.
Salmon and herring deliver their catch to a processor;
a scalloper processes onboard.
Salmon and herring have no DEC or health department
issues; a scalloper has rigorous regulations and
regular inspections.
Salmon and herring have minimal Coast Guard
regulations; a scalloper has strict regulations and
inspections.
Salmon and herring insurance costs are relatively
small; a scalloper has large insurance costs.
Salmon and herring have easy maintenance with little
equipment to service; a scalloper requires long hours
of maintenance and has much more equipment to service.
Salmon and herring need few on-shore logistics; a
scalloper has involved logistics such as lining up
freighters, cover charges, regulatory inspections and
reporting, and marketing analysis.
Salmon and herring harvest 100% of their catch in
state waters; a scalloper harvested only 20-25% in
state waters.
Please analyze the differences. Perhaps form an
advisory panel that includes current active industry
participants.
9:47:26 AM
TOM MINIO, Skipper, F/V Provider, introduced himself as a permit
holder and scalloper since 1980. He reported on the changes
that he has observed in his 27 years of fishing. The by-catch
levels are significantly lower. He said, "We'd like to see it
continue this way for a while longer."
9:48:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked what the scallop permits are worth.
MR. MINIO reported that they can be as much as $200,000.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX observed that he was not an owner of the
vessel when this legislation was implemented. The owners of the
vessel were given the permit and he had to buy into it.
MR. MINIO said that is correct, however, prior to that, the
owners were paying 250,000 per year to operate the boat.
9:50:29 AM
THOMAS N. MINIO, Mate, F/V Provider, introduced himself as a
third generation scalloper, who has witnessed many ups and downs
in the fishery. In the last five years the fishery has
stabilized, he reported.
9:52:12 AM
CHAIR SEATON clarified that he had lived in Kodiak and now lives
in Washington State.
MR. MINIO explained that the boat is maintained in the Seattle
boat yards, which is why he moved south.
9:53:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked how many members of the crew are
Alaskan residents.
MR. MINIO answered four or five. If this bill does not pass,
there will likely be a flurry of hiring from the east coast, as
there are not that many Alaskan's that know how to do the work
of a "fast cutter".
9:54:21 AM
ROBERT WILLIAMS, Deputy Director, Coastal Villages Region Fund,
stated support for HB 16. He said that he represents a western
Alaska CDQ [community development quota] group that owns two of
the hair crab permits. The group is working to build a similar
fishing tradition, when the hair crab fishery reopens.
9:55:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked how many boats are in the hair crab
fishery.
MR. WILLIAMS testified that there may be 16-18 permits. To a
follow up question he answered that he does not know how many of
the permit holders reside in Alaska.
9:56:07 AM
JULIE KAVANAUGH, F/V Sylvia Star, stated concern for HB 16, and
said that, due to the Grunert Supreme Court decision, this bill
is constitutionally questionable. Using this as a model for
other fisheries, she noted that it has improved conservation,
but cautioned that similar legislation should not be used as a
marker for new management tools or regimes. This legislation
has led to extreme consolidation, and this type of system allows
for no entry level.
9:58:12 AM
ALEXUS KWACHKA stated opposition to HB 16, and stated concern
for this style of management; it sets a bad precedent. Further,
he said that he questions how many out of state vessels are
receiving benefits from this fishery. He stated a firm belief
that east coast corporations may be benefiting from this fishery
and style of management. This "is an onion" and one layer may
not be too bad, but putting the layers together, creates a
problem, he finished.
10:00:31 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that HB 16 would be held for further
consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 10:00
a.m.
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